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Change was Incubus' crutch, not their strength
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMakeMorningA wrote:

You got it. This is the crux of why Incubus is in its present not-as-amazing-as-it-could-be state.

For everyone else, let me describe this as Incubus was figuratively riding along a road.

The band changed and evolved but when they reached ACLOTM their idea of change became going in circles around it. Instead of making a u-turn and going back to break the monotony they refuse because of the change crutch I am talking about. As long as the illusion of 'change' is kept by essentially re-imagining ACLOTM every album since, a certain vocal subset of purist fans will keep praising Incubus for it and condemn them for the sacrilege of making a trip back to the days before ACLOTM.

This is why Incubus' old-old music is prized by fans in concert but their old-new ones don't have that kind of pull.


I think you're confusing your original point. In your first post you were saying that Incubus should have focused on one sound and refined it, but now you're saying that they actually have 'stayed with a certain groove' for the past 3 or 4 albums and that's still not good enough.
It seems like what you're really saying is that their 'old' sound was better than their 'new' sound and you wish they never progressed.
You might as well just post on facebook and youtube with the other chumps stuck in the past.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shrug*

I'm sorry, but you're really just saying: "I don't like the new songs." That is totally fine, and it's your prerogative, but trying to justify your feelings - which have their root in god-knows-how-many-things - with some grand unified theory of why Incubus isn't amazing anymore is tying your logic in hilarious knots.

Quote:
The band changed and evolved but when they reached ACLOTM their idea of change became going in circles around it. Instead of making a u-turn and going back to break the monotony they refuse because of the change crutch I am talking about.


They REFUSE to make a u-turn? What are you talking about? You're telling me these guys sat in a room and, after Kilmore started scratching or Brando started singing some bullshit about society or whatever, someone threw a glass against a wall and shouted: "NO! I REFUSE TO REVISIT THE OLD SOUND OUR MESSAGE BOARD FANS ADORE."

"Why wouldn't we do that?" a trembling, fearful Jose Pasillas asked.

"BECAUSE I'M AN EGOMANIAC AND GO FUCK YOURSELF, EVERYONE," Einziger shrieked.

Quote:
As long as the illusion of 'change' is kept by essentially re-imagining ACLOTM every album since, a certain vocal subset of purist fans will keep praising Incubus for it and condemn them for the sacrilege of making a trip back to the days before ACLOTM.


The illusion of change. A rock band is trying to CREATE AN ILLUSION OF CHANGE WITH THEIR SONGWRITING, TO TRICK US INTO BEING SUBSERVIENT SHEEP-FANS WHO CANNOT BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THE DEGREE TO WHICH THE WOOL HAS BEEN PULLED OVER THEIR EYES. Just imagine, if only we could free ourselves and open our minds, we could force Incubus to make the songs that we want them to m-oh holy shit, what are we talking about? This is legitimately bonkers, dude.
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SlickMcFavorite
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really interested in the old sound vs new/changing their sound/etc. arguments. The important thing is that the new EP is honestly one of the most vile pieces of excrement I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot considering how horrific INNW was.

The band should really just call it quits at this point, as it's obvious they've just completely lost the ability to make quality music. I listened to the Time Lapse album for the first time in a couple years the other night and it's really just inexplicable how far they've fallen. Oh well.
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They should call it quits because you think its bad. That's sound logic.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The important thing is that the new EP is honestly one of the most vile pieces of excrement I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot considering how horrific INNW was.

The band should really just call it quits at this point, as it's obvious they've just completely lost the ability to make quality music. I listened to the Time Lapse album for the first time in a couple years the other night and it's really just inexplicable how far they've fallen. Oh well.


You know, just for shits and giggles, I went and checked some of your posts, and the last thing you wrote, three years ago, was that your relationship with the band ("relationship with the band"?!?) was likely over. Gosh, I wish you would've stuck with that. Making the effort of coming back to just spout negativity - and make no mistake, you're nothing but negativity - is a shitty thing to do.
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legohair
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd take a band that changes and takes musical chances anyway over one that stays the same for 20+ years on end.

If I want to hear the same thing pumped out album after album I'll go dig out some AC/DC. To the artist & listener, evolution in the music is what keeps both coming back to it.
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tingky
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

torres wrote:
Fans' response to the music is predominantly affected by Brandon's approach to the songs vocally and lyrically. I think for most fans (not all fans, of course), it's the end all be all, even if they don't admit it or realize it. On the occasions that Brandon's parts don't hit home, there tends a bit of a roll over effect towards the rest of the band and how their performance is judged.

It's true Brandon is at the forefront when it comes to criticism as of late, but I think the role of the instrumentation is quite understated. I've come to believe it has a pretty huge influence to how Brandon's vocals/lyrics are perceived.

In my opinion - and I could be horribly wrong, the instrumentation doesn't fit well with Brandon's vocal/lyrical stylings. His unabashed lyrical approach/tendency for love songs and his vocal crooning needs to be balanced out with an edgier, more left-field, tad bit rebellious kind of instrumentation. So far, the instrumentation as of late strikes me as more traditional and a bit 'safe'.

This is what makes "Make Out Party" so important for them as a band. It has that glimmer of edginess, but it's still not quite there yet. If only the chorus' instrumentation doesn't feel a bit too "controlled", this song would be near perfect. And this is all despite the lyrics, and it's exactly my point - because even though the lyrics are ridiculous, it strangely works.

Another example of a good song for Brandon's vocal is Ben Kenney's "I'll Be Outside".
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SlickMcFavorite
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slamhole wrote:
Quote:
The important thing is that the new EP is honestly one of the most vile pieces of excrement I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot considering how horrific INNW was.

The band should really just call it quits at this point, as it's obvious they've just completely lost the ability to make quality music. I listened to the Time Lapse album for the first time in a couple years the other night and it's really just inexplicable how far they've fallen. Oh well.


You know, just for shits and giggles, I went and checked some of your posts, and the last thing you wrote, three years ago, was that your relationship with the band ("relationship with the band"?!?) was likely over. Gosh, I wish you would've stuck with that. Making the effort of coming back to just spout negativity - and make no mistake, you're nothing but negativity - is a shitty thing to do.


Not sure if I should feel flattered or sorry for you that you've got nothing better to do than stalk my old posts. I listened to the EP out of morbid curiosity and wanted to see if there was anyone that didn't think it was easily their worst effort to date. Nothing more than that.
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Look_Alive
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why come on here, where the EP has been pretty well-received, to bitch about it?

Overall, I've only seen positive reviews of the EP, even if there have only been a few.
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tingky
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlickMcFavorite wrote:
slamhole wrote:
Quote:
The important thing is that the new EP is honestly one of the most vile pieces of excrement I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot considering how horrific INNW was.

The band should really just call it quits at this point, as it's obvious they've just completely lost the ability to make quality music. I listened to the Time Lapse album for the first time in a couple years the other night and it's really just inexplicable how far they've fallen. Oh well.


You know, just for shits and giggles, I went and checked some of your posts, and the last thing you wrote, three years ago, was that your relationship with the band ("relationship with the band"?!?) was likely over. Gosh, I wish you would've stuck with that. Making the effort of coming back to just spout negativity - and make no mistake, you're nothing but negativity - is a shitty thing to do.


Not sure if I should feel flattered or sorry for you that you've got nothing better to do than stalk my old posts. I listened to the EP out of morbid curiosity and wanted to see if there was anyone that didn't think it was easily their worst effort to date. Nothing more than that.

This EP was pretty meh for me as a whole.

But calling it their worst release to date... hmm... seems like a stretch, but I might actually say it is for me as well. But I generally detest EPs for obvious reasons - the lack of songs and its inability to paint a complete picture. I think EPs have to be incredibly conceptual to be memorable (eg. The Odyssey).

But I did enjoy INNW though. Enjoyed the music, but I still could not handle the fact that it was an "Incubus" release. I'd much preferred if they changed their band name for that release.
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, everyone who hates the EP, but likes Incubus is welcome here. But people who say they hate a certain song or album are in my experience also people who are very vocal about it, yet don't try very hard to actually make an argument and point out what they hate.

It's okay to express your dislike about what the band has been doing, but keep it real. This is not the nail in the coffin for the band. Far from it, if you ask me. Nor was INNW, all though it might very well have been when reading comments from Brandon and Ben about that time.

I think the band peaked in the past too (Morning View, A Crow Left of the Murder), which also means the band has gotten worse since then in my opinion. Of course, a peak can't be a peak without slopes on either side. But thinking change was their crutch? Absolutely not.

The change the band made from Fungus to Make Yourself and Morning View is enormous. I'd say that change is much bigger than the change from Make Yourself to Trust Fall, soundwise and feeling-wise.
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Look_Alive
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What comments has Ben made about INNW?
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not directly about the album, but Brandon calling it a dark period for the band, and there was the interview in 2013 with Ben and an Italian(?) website where he said that he wasn't sure if his future involved Incubus.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not sure if I should feel flattered or sorry for you that you've got nothing better to do than stalk my old posts.


I absolutely have nothing better to do. You're still a dickbag.
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SMakeMorningA
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there are people here who want Incubus to get out of the ACLOTM-LG-INNW-EP trademark mellow sound line for once.

Maybe Incubus is due for a real musical change or even a change in band members. Just remember how adding or losing Gavin, Kilmore, Dirk, and Ben brought in some changes to the direction of the band's overall sound.

It's obvious a lot of fans want something edgier from Incubus but are too timid to say it outright, because unfortunately the other fans will attack them for wanting Incubus to have their 'heavier' sound back. Or even something that is chill, summery but with a kick like MV. Oh well.
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Trust Fall is pretty heavy, in post-2004 Incubus. The sound of the guitars in MOP? The heaviest they had arguably since Make Yourself. It's not about heaviness if you ask me.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your point is now that there's some unheard segment of Incubus fans that are too frightened - seriously, too scared of disagreement on a message board - to express themselves?

I suppose I can't help with that sort of crippling, intense terror, but I will give you this assurance: you can say whatever you want around here. Just remember, though, that street runs two ways, so if you come in here throwing around statements like this: "...one of the most vile pieces of excrement I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot considering how horrific INNW was. The band should really just call it quits at this point, as it's obvious they've just completely lost the ability to make quality music. " - well, don't be surprised when I say you're an asshole. You may not be an asshole, but you were certainly wearing an asshole costume for a second just now.

Get this straight, though: me telling you that you're being a dick doesn't mean you're persecuted or some shit. It means you're not offering anything civil or constructive, or contributing to a community - you're just being an ass about a record some people (and not everyone, of course!) happen to enjoy by a band we care about. Maybe your motives for being this way are pure, and you're just trying (and failing) at expressing your disappointment at not connecting with an artist in the way you once did, or maybe you're taking out your frustration by trying to make a bunch of strangers on the internet incrementally less happy. I wish I knew!

In the meantime, I'll just say again, when you bring bullshit in here, yup, I'm going to tell you to shut up.
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redonkulousemu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it ironic that the 3 biggest song that mostly contributed to Incubus' rise in popularity are some of the most mellow songs in their catalog. Drive, Pardon Me (acoustic) and WYWH. The band has mentioned plenty of times they didn't get much radio play until Pardon Me acoustic, which led to the original version becoming popular and so on. Pretty much every Incubus single to date has been relatively mellow compared to other songs on the album and their contemporaries.

I can pretty much guarantee 95% of the people who bitch and complain about them being mellow were first introduced to Incubus by one of the mellow songs mentioned earlier. People who actually discovered their harder side first are statistically few and far between because it's not like SCIENCE songs were ever played on the radio, they were an opening band during that time and a large portion of the audience doesn't show up until the headliner, and the only album to sell less than it is INNW? Shit, the highest rated song from SCIENCE in IOV's poll, and the song mentioned and most requested from it is Summer Romance, the mellowest song on the album!!! So don't start with this "mellow" bullshit because that hate is completely misappropriated. You can't figure out why you don't like them anymore which is fine, there are plenty of bands I don't follow anymore because I don't like their newer material. But to blame it on "mellowness" is borderline retarded when they have songs like Light Grenades and Dance Like Your Dumb. Yeah, they might not have that early 00's wall of distortion at the chorus "heaviness," but that doesn't make them any less rocking. Maybe they just grew up a little, and you should too.
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alabaster
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love incubus and am grateful for any music they put out because well, they're my favorite band of all time.
Having said that;

I don't think it's an argument over heavy vs. soft. the songwriting on MY/MV/CROW was far superior to anything that came afterwards, IMO. to me the hooks were catchier. the instrumentation was a bit more interesting and the lyrics more engaging. (again, all my opinion of course). I enjoy songs from each incubus release, but to me there is absolutely no denying they've lost some creative touch along the way. the new songs seem a little bland to me. I mean if these songs came out in 2001 instead of MV would we have fallen in love with incubus the same way? I probably wouldn't have paid much attention to them tbh..

Trustfall to me is more of a step to the side, musically, rather than a step frontwards or backwards.

THe EP was a good idea. But I hope they skip trustfall side b and just record a full length LP. I mean, a second EP will have less fanfare than the first one did, amirite? why not take some more time in the studio and just do it right with a full length?

I think these new songs aren't bad but might feel better in the context of a whole album. also I wouldn't have gotten as tired of listening to the four songs if there were , say... nine? more songs to go along with them to keep them fresh.
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AlexMan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alabaster wrote:
I don't think it's a matter of heavy vs. soft. the songwriting on MY/MV/CROW was far superior to anything that came afterwards, IMO. to me the hooks were more catchier. the instrumentation was a bit more interesting and the lyrics more engaging. (again, all my opinion of course). I enjoy songs from each incubus release, but to me there is absolutely no denying they've lost some creative touch along the way. the new songs seem a little bland to me. I mean if these songs came out in 2001 instead of MV would we have fallen in love with incubus the same way? I probably wouldn't have paid much attention to them tbh..

THe EP was a good idea. But I hope they skip trustfall side b and just record a full length LP. I mean, a second EP will have less fanfare than the first one did, amirite? why not take some more time in the studio and just do it right with a full length?


I agree with this. I'm finding I'm not binge listening to the stuff from INNW & Trustfall side A (still early days in the current record cycle so it could change when they release more songs) as much as I did the older stuff. It just isn't as captivating musically or lyrically.
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