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"Trust Fall" (song discussion)
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torres
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chevy Chase wrote:
Been listening to this all day.......best single since Megalomaniac.
Or does this even qualify as a single?

Cheers Incubus, you knocked this one out of the park.


I think these days, any song that gets an offiicial lyric video made for it presumably qualifies as a single.
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redonkulousemu
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a lot people don't care for the mix that much, but I actually really like it, and think it's better than any live version I've heard. Most of them you can't hear Ben, who is carrying all the heaviness of the chorus since Mike is all over the high end doing his single note weirdness. Also, I LOVE Jose's tom work during the verse. The song definitely sounds like it's from the LG era. I can imagine it right after Earth to Bella. All around, I REALLY love this song, and any time I listen to it, I end up playing it at least 3-4 times in a row. Those 6 minutes fly by man, it seems waaaay shorter than it really is.
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair those six minutes fly by, because the actual song is 4.40 minutes or something? If you don't count the silence before the start, the heartbeats and perhaps the spoken word.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First: no one can convince me the chorus line is "let's/lets you sail across the known universe." I've listened to this a thousand times, and every time, without fail, I'm hearing "but you sail across the known universe."

And lyrically, it's silly to suggest this is just obfuscation for the sake of fucking with people; BB has been chipping away at the notion of oneness and universal connection in both of the songs we've heard so far. Make no mistake about it - this is the continuation of a theme in his writing, not just throwing shit at a wall in hopes that no one will notice the smell. Let's do a deep dive!

The song, to my mind, is about overcoming one's resistance to give oneself fully to the love of another person. The narrator here has pretty clearly been struggling as the song begins ("Things have been a little inside out/Apologies..."), but he realizes that, and he's committing to trying again ("I'm gonna ride out the tide/Take it in stride") for the sake of a relationship that's clearly already very important within the scope of his life ("Where would I run to?"). But again, he's willing to admit that he's feeling some hesitance bordering on straight-up nausea ("Funny how the little things stick/Make you seasick/Sweep you off your feet!").

But love, the narrator realizes, requires letting go and surrendering despite your fears ("It's only a trust fall"). But, importantly, there's a larger epiphany in that act - namely, that connecting with another person constitutes connection with the entirety of existence ("Into the arms of all"). It's still a hard thing, giving oneself entirely, but again, it links you with everything ("Love is a blessed curse, but you sail across the known universe").

I think we gain another insight into the narrator's reluctance in the second verse; there's a certain clinging to individuality that's going on ("I like it when you look at me like I'm an alien..."). The draw of the other person in the relationship, though, draws our narrator out, so to speak ("Lure me with a lock of your hair/Taking that dare/Is a fire under my feet"). The attraction of this other person lets our narrator see that he has to relinquish his defenses if he's ever to gain the larger understanding that's delivered by a connection with another person ("Now I see I gotta let go if I wanna know/Gotta let it steal my face/Now I embrace/What's in front of me").

The thing that's in front of him, I'd argue, is the deep, fundamental truth of his link - even in confusion, hesitance - with the rest of the cosmos, as it were. He shares a connection with the world around him ("The marrow in the tree/The sap in your bones"). Even his continued fight against the idea of letting go, which is getting harder to keep up ("Same as the pistol/heavy in hand") has a connection to other whirling, raging, ultimately fruitless conflict on other celestial bodies ("Same as the storms/Spinning on Io").

Here's the important part (still with me?):

"Not a divide/That's an illusion
That's an illusion/a collective dream"

There's no difference between our petty little intrapersonal squabbles and relationships, ultimately, and the experiences shared by everyone else on the planet. Hell, there's no difference between what we are and what everything else in the universe is. It's all one (There's an Absolution Calling reference in there, too).

"You startle and wake
Salute the abyss
Smile and surrender"
Into a glimpse
The rapturous nothing
Into the arms of your captor
Into the arms of the all"

There's your epiphany. We're all a part of everything and nothing simultaneously. We're all caught, captured, connected - however you prefer to cast it. There's nothing to be done - at least as far as our narrator thinks - than to give in, to give of oneself, and to surrender by figuratively closing your eyes, spreading your arms, and plummeting backwards.




Pro tip: do not come at me with the nonsense that Boyd is writing about nothing. I'll write a goddamned thesis at you.
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lovincubus21
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="

Pro tip: do not come at me with the nonsense that Boyd is writing about nothing. I'll write a goddamned thesis at you.[/quote]

I gotta say of all the threats i've seen on the internet, the come at you with a goddamned thesis threat is hands down my favorite. Well done on the lyric interpretation too.
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Dean Youngblood
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone actually thinks Brandon is "writing about nothing."

The critique I have read is that his lyrics and even ideas are over-complicated, at times intentionally obscure to the point of being pretentious.

Which is really a matter of personal taste.
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I'll Take B
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slamhole wrote:
First: no one can convince me the chorus line is "let's/lets you sail across the known universe." I've listened to this a thousand times, and every time, without fail, I'm hearing "but you sail across the known universe."


Never noticed this so I listened to it again - heard "but you". Changed the song's sample rate to 30,000 hertz to slow it down - it's definitely "lets you". Went back and listened to it again at full-speed - I can hear it both ways depending what I force myself to expect.

Considering the lyrics in the official video are "lets you", that's what I'm going with. We'll have to agree to disagree. Try slowing the song down and giving the chorus a listen.
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phil collins
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ slamhole

I'll Take B wrote:

Considering the lyrics in the official video are "lets you"...


/argument
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JLynn943
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chevy Chase wrote:
Been listening to this all day.......best single since Megalomaniac.
Or does this even qualify as a single?

Cheers Incubus, you knocked this one out of the park.


Yeah, this is definitely my favorite since Megalomaniac and TSOM
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Blind Melon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish pre-ordering the album (through their website) gave me the digital download for Trust Fall.
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Roger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite single since Mega...as well.

I have embraced the song, and I too have zero idea what Brandon's talking about at the end. I'm over it though. It is what it is.
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tingky
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jelger wrote:
What is so bad about Brandon's delivery or execution (is that the same thing?)? If anything, I think his delivery on Trust Fall and Absolution Calling is more interesting than the past cycle. There's a bit of edge to his voice, which I missed for a while.

He strikes me as someone who's created a set of singing rules to follow and is constrained within them as a result and in time these same rules become second nature to him - a habit. For example, I can't recall any recent song where he doesn't use vibrato. He's probably unaware that he uses it constantly, but I personally think his delivery will improve ten fold if he uses it sparingly. I think singing in vibrato is best left for love songs. A song like Trust Fall can maybe get away with a bit of vibrato but just sounds cheesy overladen with it.

Also the breathy delivery of the spoken word bit at the end is just too cheesy - like he's seducing you or something.

To drive my point home: here's a pretty recent Death Cab song.
https://youtu.be/io9ivuo4r6Q
It's pretty decent lyrically and the simple delivery is quite nice. Now, imagine if Brandon sang the same lyrics with his own set of notes (along with his vibrato). I'm quite sure complaints about the lyrics being "cheesy" will pop up.

Anyway, that's just how I honestly feel about his singing.
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on, ting. Gibbard is using more vibrato in that song than Boyd is in Trustfall. The only difference is Gibbard is a worse (I'll say it: more boring) singer!
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HAM
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also agree that this is their best single since Megalomaniac.

My only slight issue is that in the outro thing before the spoken words, I would've preferred only bass with Mike playing the intro riff (like they're playing it live), instead of the intro riff + bass + rhythm guitar.
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Pan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slamhole wrote:

Pro tip: do not come at me with the nonsense that Boyd is writing about nothing. I'll write a goddamned thesis at you.


Why would you threaten that? Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing?

Look, you're going to win, obviously. It's a disappointment for me. I don't have the heart to keep critiquing these insufferable lyrics and you are plenty motivated to defend them. I wish Brandon Boyd hadn't secretly died and been replaced by a twin brother who is doing his best Brandon Boyd impression after years of secretly hating his twin brother's music, but that just isn't the case. I will just move on. No big deal.

Dean Youngblood nailed it:
"The critique I have read is that his lyrics and even ideas are over-complicated, at times intentionally obscure to the point of being pretentious.

Which is really a matter of personal taste."
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slamhole
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're totally right, Pan. You're entitled to your opinion, and you damn sure don't need to agree with me. Dislike whatever you dislike; I happen to dislike Death Cab, but if that's what Ting up there likes then I salute that.

I can't help being resentful, however, of the notion that some ideas are too obscure or complicated, and therefore should be dismissed as pretentious. First of all, that's a dangerous precedent to set; I believe you're going to miss out on a lot of really good stuff if you approach your consumption of art that way.

But I'll admit that feeling mostly springs out of my impression - and this could certainly be my own bias, because yes, I am passionate about artists I value, and Incubus is one of them - that whereas I took some time to read the lyrics, consider them, and offer what I feel is a reasonable (and perhaps even interesting!) interpretation, you, Pan, threw up your hands and said they suck because they were too unwieldy or too complicated.

I'll close by answering your initial question: I was making a joke in my comment, but yes, we should be offering theses/complex arguments back and forth in support of what we think! That's what I'm doing. I feel like you, on the other hand, are offering the equivalent of fuck off, I don't even really care enough to try. No big deal.

Again, that's your prerogative, but the very idea of not giving enough of a fuck to make an argument about an Incubus lyric - particularly when you are a long-time poster to an Incubus message board - is a little ridiculous, isn't it?
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Pan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Discussions of lyrical content are by far my favorite thing for bands I like this and I remember at one point asking for a separate board for song-specific Incubus discussions but it was eventually vetoed (which is fine). Please do discuss your opinions about the lyrics. In my first few posts I did post my specific critiques of the lyrics, but it's unhelpful for me to try too hard to convince someone of why I dislike something they like. Hopefully others will offer meaningful collaborations instead of my naysaying.

For what it's worth, your interpretations of the lyrics seem spot on with what Brandon is trying to do with the song. I think my problem is that Brandon so heavily relies on an indirect, obscure approach to his lyrics that it's hard to tell when the result lacks coherence. Yes the bread crumbs can be assembled into a narrative, but I think the overall effect is dulled and feels messy compared to if he was able to express it sharply and concisely. He has definitely achieved this in the past ("Blood in my mouth beats blood on the ground").
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Jelger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree with that sentiment, I like his directness in the past. You did, however, say that he put nonsensical stuff in songs to mess with fans. I realise that was probably semi-serious or exaggeration, but I think that's what sparked my and slamhole's surprise.
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dfekt
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntJiHvXUdSg

Cool video...really shows how fuckin' gnarly Ben's bassline is. Soooo good.
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tingky
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slamhole wrote:
You're totally right, Pan. You're entitled to your opinion, and you damn sure don't need to agree with me. Dislike whatever you dislike; I happen to dislike Death Cab, but if that's what Ting up there likes then I salute that.

Fine by me.

I would just like to clarify that the actual lyrics isn't the end-all be-all. While lyrical content does matter, it still boils down to how it's packaged and delivered to the listener. Your genius lyrics won't translate with subpar delivery. It's not always what is being said but how one says it.
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