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amapola
The Karate Kid


Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think co-dependency stems from insecurity and a lack of self-esteem. Some people are so desperate to be loved and accepted that they unhealthily put everyone elses needs before their own. The flip side of this is controlling behavior. I guess it takes two people to allow a co-dependent relationship to develop. Power certainly needs to be handled carefully. From my own experience, in some cases, betrayal can lead to a re-balancing of power and put it back on a more even footing.

Anyway, your poem says it very well.
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Kesa
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Undertow (Swim Away) Reply with quote

jabble524 wrote:
Undertow (Swim Away)

You carved out my heart
But I sharpened the knife
Betrayal turned into control
When you begged for forgiveness

Sacrificed my dreams and desires
Thought I could love you, and you’d change
Enabled with love, while reason atrophied
Second chances disguised as compassion

You could smell loneliness
Like blood in the water

Caught in the undertow
I saw your fin approaching
But didn’t have the self esteem
To swim away


This poem made me feel pangs of anger. Because it happens so often with love. You can feel the rawness in your pain, and translating it into a shark feasting on your passion/ heart, it makes it so visceral. To top that all off you're lost in a current you have no strength to swim out of. This subject is where I need clarification and growth.

jabble524 wrote:
Thanks. Codependency is a very strange thing. Creatively, I am interested in exploring the reasons of codependency. Essentially, codependency boils down to sharpening the knife, to be stabbed in the back. Yet people stay in those types of relationships. I am interested in the reasons why.


I think every relationship has nuances of co-dependency. Isn't a purpose of sharing a space, feelings, love, your bodies linear to being with a partner? Putting your faith in another when you have put as much as you can into yourself? Otherwise, why not just be alone? I think a relationship becomes toxic when the scale is unbalanced. As in every relationship there is a give/take, when that relationship is askew hence the power struggle. I am a giver, I will always be a giver but sometimes I become a beacon for the takers. This is something I will have to experience in my life because it just is who I am.

jabble524 wrote:
Personally, codependency is not a major issue for me, but I have fallen into it from time to time (as I suspect most people have)- and in trying to explore my unconscious, I discovered that I crave control. Not in a sadistic or evil way, but I do like to be in the driver's seat (so to speak).


Who enjoys being out of control? We all enjoy feeling as if we have a handle on a situation. Reliquishing control is difficult for me as well, as I've gotten older I have learned that sometimes if you let someone else drive from time to time you have a chance to see the scenic route.

Poppy wrote:
I think co-dependency stems from insecurity and a lack of self-esteem. Some people are so desperate to be loved and accepted that they unhealthily put everyone elses needs before their own.


Am intrigued by the way you see co-dependency, Poppy. It certainly stems from a lack of self- love, here I agree. But I have always viewed it as being a result of not having the help that you need. And therefore, putting your life in another's to keep you afloat because you cannot, or will not do it for yourself. It's definitely a siamese twin to insecurity.

But I am the first to admit, many a time I put others before my own needs. If only because, not that they will love me more, but it makes me feel really good to do so. Never really thought of it resulting in more affection. I'm just a caregiver. It's why I am becoming a teacher. Helping others find themselves, even if it means that I have to give something up to do so, has always been my path. As I've gotten older though, I have learned that the only way one can save others, when the proverbial plane is going down, is to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, otherwise no one is going to breathe.

Poppy wrote:
The flip side of this is controlling behavior. I guess it takes two people to allow a co-dependent relationship to develop.

It does. Otherwise there would be no dependence. This is the balance of a relationship, why does one person need to be in control? It's enough to be in control of your own destiny. The thought of leaving your life in another's hands scares the crap out of me. In order for a relationship to work both sides need to know who they are, where they are going, and if they can share a path on the way. There should be no power play in a relationship. This is when it becomes fuzzy for me. Why in the world would I want to control the person that I love? I am no queen that has to lord over another, and I don't expect another to do so with me. I am no one's servant, and I wouldn't want another to be mine. The power of my life emanates from the power I have within my self. No one should place all of their happiness in that of another because one day in the middle of the night they might just go share all your happiness with someone else. You have to have to find it in yourself, even if it takes a lifetime to do so. But a partner in love should be just that. One who makes your day better just by being a part of it. A guide, a soul to teach, to love, just to be there, someone who helps you grow because your souls compliment one another.

Poppy wrote:
Power certainly needs to be handled carefully. From my own experience, in some cases, betrayal can lead to a re-balancing of power and put it back on a more even footing.

jabble524 wrote:

I also discovered that in relationships, if someone betrays you, and then crawls back, there is a brief window of time where you have total control, as that person tries to earn your forgiveness, and prove to you they've changed. That is not the most flattering revelation about myself, but I think exploring the unconscious is about journeying through the darkness to find the sunrise. For example, if I don't realize that about my relationships, how will I ever learn to ease up and let go?


This is what I don't understand :betrayal. Should you accept a rift in your relationship because the balance of power has shifted in your favor? Does forgiving mean allowing for it to be okay? What does being in love mean, if the person that you love wants to be with another person? How many soul mates can one person have? And if there is more than one, is there one that you forever search for?

Soul mates, I wish I had more of them in my life.
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jabble524
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think breaking codependency is counter-intuitive in a way. When you love someone with all your heart, you want to give them everything, and do anything to make them happy. Often I think this is where the balance is lost. It's strange, but I think healthy relationships require a little bit of selfishness, because the relationship is half about you. In trying to give the other person everything (out of love for them), ironically, you can give away the balance, which can plant the seeds of codependency, and cause problems down the road.
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amapola
The Karate Kid


Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Undertow (Swim Away) Reply with quote

Jenny and Jabble, you both make really good points.

interconnected moment wrote:


Poppy wrote:
I think co-dependency stems from insecurity and a lack of self-esteem. Some people are so desperate to be loved and accepted that they unhealthily put everyone elses needs before their own.


Am intrigued by the way you see co-dependency, Poppy. It certainly stems from a lack of self- love, here I agree. But I have always viewed it as being a result of not having the help that you need. And therefore, putting your life in another's to keep you afloat because you cannot, or will not do it for yourself. It's definitely a siamese twin to insecurity.

But I am the first to admit, many a time I put others before my own needs. If only because, not that they will love me more, but it makes me feel really good to do so. Never really thought of it resulting in more affection. I'm just a caregiver. It's why I am becoming a teacher. Helping others find themselves, even if it means that I have to give something up to do so, has always been my path. As I've gotten older though, I have learned that the only way one can save others, when the proverbial plane is going down, is to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, otherwise no one is going to breathe.



I think the key word I was using here was 'unhealthily'. Unselfishness and caring for others are qualities to be admired. It's when other people's needs subjugate our own to our detriment that the balance is unhealthy. But hey, none of us is perfect, we all have imperfect relationships, we are all needy to a degree, our motives often questionable ....we just have to keep trying.
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We cross our bridges as we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and the presumption that once our eyes watered
~ Tom Stoppard
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jabble524
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Atrophy Reply with quote

This is an updated version of one of my old poems.

Atrophy

At first we could barely keep our hands off each other
But time is a powerful venom
That causes romance to atrophy
Soon we could barely stand to touch each other

We began to live separate lives
Shrouded our hearts in secrecy
Veiled our feelings in shadows
And wore smiling masks in public

We became unconscious architects of our inferno
An unresolved argument here
A failed chance at communication there
Schisms that divide soul mates

Our hearts burned in selfish flames
We could hear the crackles, and smell the cinders
But refused to admit
That there was a fire

As I walked by the charred remains
Of a once vibrant romance
I realized why love and reason
Are enemies
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Kesa
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful!!!!!!!!!! I wish you were here more often Jabble.
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jabble524
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I am glad you thought it was "beautiful" cause I was going for the whole finding beauty in decay theme, and I wasn't sure if it worked. Anyways, hope all is well.
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Kesa
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jabble524 wrote:
Thanks. I am glad you thought it was "beautiful" cause I was going for the whole finding beauty in decay theme, and I wasn't sure if it worked. Anyways, hope all is well.


It really is beautiful. Can relate. I am well, thanks J.
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jabble524
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ironic. When you're in a relationship, love is blind. Yet when the relationship is over, everything becomes crystal clear.
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Kesa
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jabble524 wrote:
It's ironic. When you're in a relationship, love is blind. Yet when the relationship is over, everything becomes crystal clear.


J, why is that? What is it about love that makes it filter over something that otherwise just wouldn't need one?
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